Today Paul and Chris (Baseball Dudes) talk about the state of baseball today, what it means to make it now vs in the past, and much more.
Chris played in the pros for 14 years, coached in the minor league with the Angels, did that for a few years, and teaches pitching instruction in Vancouver, Washington. Chris runs BaseballDudes.com
Get your copy of the 567 Dad book here: http://bit.ly/2AsWMz2
Related videos:
- Sports Dad Hub – Interview with Kevin Duy
- BetterPitching.com – Interview With Phil Rosengren
- The 90mph Formula – Interview With Dr. Josh Heenan
- Interview With Troy Silva
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– [Paul] Hey guys. Welcome back to another edition of Baseball Dads Podcast and on this episode, pretty pumped because we have a guy named Chris Gissell as our guest today and Chris has an incredible baseball resume that we’ll talk about, but more importantly, I’m kind of a fan of his. I follow what he does on social media. He’s got an incredible way of talking about the game, talking about the state of the game and educating young pitchers, so he is a pitcher that’s been there and been on the elite level but what I really respect about him is how he’s taken that passion and really dedicated himself to working with kids, working with kids in the right way, keeping things in perspective, teaching, obviously, the Xs and Os in the game but it’s just a very cool way he does. He runs a program called BaseballDudes.com. You can check it out there but it’s just a very positive and encouraging thing and it’s something that I’ve really admired and I’ve watched for a little while, so Chris, thanks for making the time today and welcome to the show.
– [Chris] Thanks for having me. I’m looking forward to talking more about all this good stuff.
– [Paul] Yeah, so let’s give us the two minute rundown. Tell us about your career, baseball background, all that kind of stuff.
– [Chris] Well, graduated at a local high school here in Vancouver, Washington in ’96. Got drafted that year. Went on to play, very fortunate to do it for 14 years. From there was interviewing for some local scouting positions and ended up getting a minor league coaching job with the Angels, did that for a few years, and now very fortunate to get to work with local families here. And I think we’re in year four of that now, about to start our fourth year of our player development program. So we’re very fortunate, couldn’t really ask for anything more. I still get to be involved in the game, and I still get to throw the baseball every day and play catch. There are different phases to our programs, you know? For most of the year we’re inside working with kids. Other part we get to go outside for a couple months. Bottom line it comes down to the kids and that’s what it’s all about, you know? Whether it’s helping the kids or helping their parents work through things. Or what I’m really enjoying is also working with our local coaches, and helping them learn different ways, find better ways of helping their kids, too.
– [Paul] Yeah, so we were talking a little bit before we hit record. We were talking about some of the things that are going on in the game. So I’m always curious to get someone’s opinion it’s kind of been up and down through the game. You’ve been at the highest level. You know what it takes to get there. What are you seeing as things that are maybe, that are going on in the game that you think we could be better at?
– [Chris] Well, obviously, being a former pitcher and a majority, probably 95% of the kids I work with and the families are families of pitchers. So pay close attention to that. Again, I played for 14 years. Over that time, well over, probably 1,500 innings pitched, as a starter for most of it. Went back and forth, starting and relieving. And just understanding the arm and what it takes, and what it feels like. What it feels like to go out there and throw 100 pitches, and how the body feels the next day, and on day two, and day three, and day four. And then longevity. What does it take for a pitcher to be strong on day one of the season, and then on the last game of the season to still be just as strong? I think those are a lot of things that I see that when it comes to our youth pitchers, and kind of the way the game is played now with it not really being a season of 40 to 60 games spread out over months, but it being more of bombarding, or an overload of games on one weekend, and then a couple weeks off, and then another overload of games. So kind of what that does to the arm, and when there’s kind of a lack of preparation in between. And we all know, anybody who pays attention to the youth world, knows that injuries have skyrocketed. So–
– Right, yep.
– [Chris] You know, obviously, a huge question is why? What’s going on? And all this started around the year 2000. Which, and again I’m not, I don’t bash or anything in tournament baseball, but kind of the way things are done, it’s just it’s not good for the arms. And around that same time is when we started seeing arms breaking. And there’s also other factors, you know. Older players, we train different now. We throw so much harder, and it’s, the body is only meant to do so much. And I think when you kind of reach those extraordinary levels of the output on the arm, that things are going to break. That’s just, anybody who’s doing anything to max that hurt over, and over, and over at extreme levels, something’s going to happen, you know? So that’s, that’s also part of it. But the overload that we see on these young kids. Things are slowly, slowly breaking. Until one day, maybe three years from now somebody’s arm says, that’s it, I’m done. I can’t do this anymore. We tend to think that it’s he broke it on this day because of he was doing this, or he threw that pitch at that moment–
– [Paul] Cold out. I’ve heard it was cold out that day.
– [Chris] Yeah, and all those things may factor in to what the arm was, the shape it was in at that moment, but it’s the years and years of stuff that happened before then. And this is all what we’re learning. That there’s a kid I’m working with right now, who he is a junior. Yeah, he’s a junior. Big old tall kid, lefty, has a really good delivery. And I’m watching him throw and I’m like, how did this kid break? I mean, he’s got, fundamentally he’s doing everything right in his delivery. And when I get with talking with him and dad, he would pitch and throw 70 or 80 pitches, and then a game later that same day, he’d be playing first base. And then the next day he’s out there playing a position. His arm would get overload, or do what it needs to do, and then it would get into recovery mode, and all of a sudden a few hours later he’s cranking on it again. There’s that, when you’re young you feel invincible. And as parents we’re ignorant to it. Most coaches are ignorant to it. You just don’t realize what that arm is going through. When honestly, that kid, if he threw 80 pitches at 10:00 on Saturday, he’s done for the rest of the day after that. And the next day if he’s going to play a position it’s very limited. But that’s just our current culture and society, and the way we’re doing it. We are really oblivious to it, or we don’t pay attention to it, or we know it and we just don’t care. There’s a lot of factors in it. But the way the game is played now is so different compared to when you or I were growing up. We may have thrown too many pitches, but we didn’t do any more throwing the rest of the day. And the next day it was our bodies had maybe not optimal, but we had recovery time, whereas now there really is no recovery time.
– [Paul] Yeah. Yeah, I think you made a great point about tournament baseball, because I do a lot of that, too. I’m against tournament baseball. I’m not against it. I kind of look at it like donuts, you know? Like, I’m not against donuts, but I’m against eating a dozen donuts, you know? That’s it just make you sick, right? It’s not good for anybody. And so, I think that’s everything has its place, and has moderation. But there, you just made some great points there. What advice would you give to a dad who is in that moment where he has to decide, I’m going to go into this world, or I’m going to maybe hold my son back a little bit. That’s what a lot of our dads struggle with. I probably get that question at least a few times a day, in email or over the phone. You’ve been there, right? Now, can you turn his back to the kid, and talk to that dad who maybe has a nine, 10, 11, 12, or 13, 14 year old kid who, I’ve got to make the decision, you know? My kid’s going to come into this world or I’m going to mold it a little bit differently. What would you say to them?
– [Chris] Yeah, well, I actually just had this conversation a couple days ago with a father of a 10 year old, almost 11 year old, and what we see now is parents talk amongst parents, coaches, and programs, you know, it’s, it’s almost like we’re salesmen, you know?
– [Paul] Yeah.
– [Chris] You need to do this. If your goal is this, this is what you need to do. And then he’s being told that if he doesn’t get into it now, that a couple of years from now, so around when the kid is 12, it’ll probably be too late. For me, I hear that and again, just working with how many families we do, and hearing all the stuff we hear, and seeing that the kids’ confidence levels when they walk into the tunnel, it’s, it is really, a kid is going to be as good as he’s going to be, you know? Whether he’s playing 50 games a year, or 20 games a year, or 80 games a year. His talent, it kind of is what it is. And if a kid plays little league baseball from nine to 12, he is still going to have the same talent as a 13 year old as he would if he played travel, or tournament ball, or whatever, elite baseball, whatever you call it, from nine to 12. He may have developed a little bit quicker, but the talent is still, that’s what’s in you, if that makes sense. It’s almost like what you’re born with. And in my opinion, you’re not going to be behind. You’re not going to miss out. If a kid has talent and he has passion, he’s going to work, he’s going to learn, he’s going to get better. Sure, if he’s facing kids that are throwing 70 every day as opposed to 50 every day, he’s going to be more prepared to hit 70. But that’s not saying that you take both those kids when they get to high school, that one isn’t going to be more prepared than the other. And I think, and again, I’m a believer and I’ve seen it all, and I’ve seen kids who became professionals that only played little league and Babe Ruth, but they still became professionals. There’s, it is a sense in our world now that if you don’t go that so-called elite route, that you’re just, your talent won’t pan out. And I, again, for me and all the kids I’ve worked with and it’s, I don’t necessarily believe that. I’ve seen too many kids that are great high school players that didn’t go to showcases, or spend thousands of dollars playing in the elite program.
– [Paul] Right. And it’s tough, right? Because I almost feel like sometimes we’ve shifted the definition of what making it is. And like where I think we grew up and making it was college, or professional, or beyond that. And I almost feel like making it now is, are you on that right team that goes on the best trips, and does the right things? It almost feels like it’s shifted, where they’ve brought the major league kind of, or the professional college experience down to that level. Do you feel that a little bit?
– [Chris] Yeah, and I think a lot of it has to do with youth baseball being ran more like a business now. So with that business becomes higher fees, tournaments are now charging more fees. You get two to three different uniforms. There’s all this stuff. You even saw that article in the Times where, kids that are being flown from out of state, in to play. So it’s way more of a business now, and which program is the so-called elite program. It’s definitely different in that sense. And it’s like you have half the world that can’t afford that. Or they don’t necessarily believe in it. And then the other half that looks almost down on that other half. Or that we’re doing this so we’re guaranteed to be better. I mean, there’s really no guarantee in any of this. It’s definitely shifted. And again, it’s, but, and it’s not for everybody. Some families really enjoy the travel. They really, really enjoy it. That’s their family time. You can’t knock that. You can’t knock that at all. And then there are some families that will dive into that world, and then the next world they will realize that that was just too much and they’ll back out. And again, you have to, it’s a live and learn thing. And obviously, we try to help families learn, maybe before, from what other people have experienced. I always encourage families like, hey, before you make this decision, go find families that have been doing it. And don’t just talk to those families that have the really talented kids, that coaches love, and the coach has played every inning. Find the families that, for some reason, left that program.
– [Paul] Yep.
– [Chris] Pick their brains, and make your decision based off of that. The term drink the Kool Aid. Be careful of following that small group that everybody loves the taste of that Kool Aid. Find the people that have started turning it away. Feel why. Find out the whys now. It’s tough, man. It’s really tough.
– [Paul] It is very tough. And it’s also very tough, a question I get a lot from parents is what do you do with a kid who just lives, sleeps, breathes baseball, and just wants to play it all the time? I say it’s a tough situation because, wow, you want to encourage this enthusiasm, right? But my kids are enthusiastic about cupcakes, and Swedish Fish, and Cheez-Its and M&Ms. If I let them decide how much of that to eat, they would eat it all. They wouldn’t eat anything else, right? Just like we were, when we were kids. We’d do the same thing. And I also worry about the, even the families that do love travel. I often feel that sometimes it puts that pressure on the kid now, that this is where the family’s connecting, and they love the travel, and if the kid decides, hey, I don’t want to play baseball anymore, does that, does it now affect the family? Does that now, is there inherent pressure there to keep that up, because it is what is the family, or fun time for the family? I worry about that sometimes.
– [Chris] Yeah.
– [Paul] Oh, go ahead, I’m sorry.
– [Chris] I was going to say, the overuse, you know, the burnout piece is, it’s real. And I mean, the same thing comes with there will be families that want to start working on the pitching in November. And I’m like, let’s slow down before we start scheduling all these training sessions. When is his season gonna start? How long is his next season going to go? You know, if we start working out now in November, we could be practicing pitching for five months before he ever gets into a game, and that’s not good for anybody. That’s not good for him mentally. He’ll start getting bored. That’s not good for his body. You know, he’s kind of, he’s getting up to max maybe a little bit too soon, and then come the middle of the summertime, that burnout will hit him. That burnout will hit him physically and mentally. And then even you guys, as parents, that mental burnout will hit. There was a mom I was talking with a couple years ago, who’s sitting with me in what was it, May or June? And you can tell she’s drained. And we start talking and they, whatever team she was on, it was literally seven days a week. And I’m just like, it’s a game. You guys, you’re going to need to make some adjustments as a family after this season’s over. Because you shouldn’t feel like this about baseball. You shouldn’t feel like it’s a job.
– [Paul] Yeah.
– [Chris] Your kid is not even a teenager yet.
– [Paul] Yeah, again, it’s… I think it’s the hardest thing to do, between, you know, like, is trying to figure out where do you, where do you stop? You know, what’s a healthy dose, I guess? What’s a healthy dose where it doesn’t get to be too much? I wish there was some kind of a formula that we could share that could say, hey, if this is happening, but the signs of burnout, and the signs of even fatigue, and the early signs of injury usually are there, and I don’t know how have you done, I’ve usually struggled in helping parents pick them up early enough to make a difference. But once it kind of hits, then parents can pinpoint back and say, oh, that’s where, now looking back, that’s where it probably started to fall apart a little bit.
– [Chris] Yeah, being in the world that I’m in where we don’t have teams, we don’t have, we don’t travel around our area playing games. So the families that we work with, they come to us for help on whatever that scale is. And you will see it. You will see them wanting to start so soon, and then we’re still seeing you in a month where I understand why there’s burnout. I want to go back real quick to what you said about the kid that has passion, the kid that loves it, and he eats and breathes, sleeps and breathes baseball. Those are coaches’ dreams, because you know that when they’re away from you they’re doing something to get better. And to be honest, you have to have that. To be extraordinary in this game that’s a piece that you have to have. Very rarely will you see someone who has unbelievable God-given talent, and they never have to work at it, and they just become a big leaguer. It’s happened. It’s happened. Don’t get me wrong. There’s guys I’ve played with that it was like, they didn’t pick up a bat until spring training, and they ended up playing in the big leagues.
– [Paul] It’s like John Kruk. You ever hear of John Kruk? They asked him–
– Yeah.
– [Paul] What he did during the season, and he said box like bars. And then they go, what do you do during the off season? He says, we drink beer and play cards.
– [Chris] So that’s one in a billion that has that ability. So you have to have that love for it, and the talent to be great. And on the flip side, how many times have we seen or heard stories of kids in whatever the sport is, that they end up getting a college scholarship. And all of a sudden they say, they tell mom and dad that I don’t wanna go. I’m done. I’m done playing. I’m tired. That’s a real issue, too. It’s almost like sometimes you have to force those kids to, hey you have to be a salesman. And help them understand. Hey, we just need to slow down a little bit. In your book you talked about what the ultimate goal is. If the ultimate goal is to be this, let’s talk about what we need to do to get ready for that. And part of that is giving our, little things in our body a rest. And while we’re having that rest, we do other things to prepare. So, it’s almost, you have to sell the kid on what his goal is. You have to sell him on how do we achieve that goal? And then that comes from selling the parents on that too. Which is more than half the battle.
– [Paul] Yeah, we had a guest on a podcast we just did recently, Kevin Duy, who runs Sports Dad Hub. He had a great, something that woke me up, where he said, I want my kids to miss the sport a little bit. And the minute he said that, my dad used to mow the lawns at Little League and stuff like that. I can remember the build up to opening day. And town opening day. Just as the spring starts to turn, you smell the grass, and you really can’t wait to get back out there and play the game. I had never thought of that in this new age that we’re in. Do we ever give kids that feeling of man, baseball’s gonna start soon. It’s awesome. And I felt that every year of my life until, growing up, every year playing youth baseball. And I think it’s an important thing for those kids to miss that a little bit.
– [Chris] I see that more with the Little League kids I work with than I do with the kids that are full-blown playing 60, 70 games a year. I see more of that excitement from those kids. And it’s again, it’s, a coach has done a great job, parents have done a great job if, when the season is over, the kids are excited to play next season.
– Right.
– That’s our one goal, is the kids to get better, for them to keep loving the game, and to keep that excitement for the next time.
– [Paul] Yeah, yeah. Well let’s switch gears here. You have a great blog post that I wanna direct people to, that I think anybody who’s pitching a baseball should read. And it’s at Baseballdudes.com/save-our-arms. Reach our main page and through the navigation here. You have this list of things here that it’s just a great guide. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen it, and we see a lot of stuff that is just as clear and concise as this. So, I’m pretty sure, I know your intentions behind it, but let’s talk a little bit about some of your recommendations here. What do you think are the big ones that a pitcher, and a father who’s guiding that pitcher needs to be aware of?
– [Chris] Well, if I put it on that page, I don’t have it in front of me. If I put it on that page, obviously I think it’s a big one. And as I’ve been going through this, and I just put that page up maybe a year ago. And we have pitch count guidelines on there, and to be honest, the numbers you see on that chart that I put together, they are super conservative. There’s so many variables that go into kinda deciding how many pitches can I give this kid today? Going back to what he’s done recently, what’s our plan for the future? There’s so many variables. But that’s just kind of a guideline, mainly for coaches who just don’t have the experience. I think one of the biggest ones, and I’ve really kind of figure out the importance of it, was one I referred to a few minutes ago about when a kid pitches a high number of pitches, how to handle that arm after that. And setting that kid down for the rest of the day is so important. But we see a kid that will throw 80 pitches and then gets stuck out in center field. Then all of a sudden an hour later, or 45 minutes later, a half hour later, after that kid’s arm has gone into recovery mode, he has to crank loose and let one rip to the infield. Which is–
– Right, awful.
– [Chris] Awful for the arm. And this happens all the time. It happens, it’s crazy how much it happens that that kid gets taken, gets put from the mound to a position. If he threw an inning or two and the pitch count was low, we’re fine, it’s not a big deal. But when you get up to those high pitch count numbers, and especially when you have kids who possess a fast arm, they have ability to throw hard, it’s even more strain that is being put on the arm. So for me, that’s a biggie. Another biggie for me is when you find programs or teams that only play in tournaments. And they don’t have games in between. Say they have a tournament 4th of July weekend, and they don’t play another one until two weekends later. And in between, in between there’s very few practices, there’s limited to no bullpen throwings, there’s no practice games. There’s no games. So there’s nothing that’s keeping these arms conditioned for whatever they threw, and whatever they want to throw. And being a pitcher, all it takes is three to four, maybe five days of little to no throwing, where you start to lose stamina. You lose arm strength. Everything kind of starts going south quick. And we’ve gone so far as to when we have kids come in, we will throw simulated games. They will throw a bullpen, they will get up there and throw 15 batters.
– [Paul] I would say they have to do that–
– [Chris] From the mound. Or, 15 pitches. I’ll have the other, his partner will hop up there and he’ll throw his 15 pitches. And we’ll go back and forth and do, maybe 45 to 60 pitches worth of innings, if that makes sense. Just to keep their arms ready for the next weekend.
– [Paul] Yeah. I gotta ask–
– That’s just it, it isn’t done, it’s almost like ignored. So for me, that’s a big deal. What were you gonna say?
– [Paul] Well, I say how do I, my kid’s pitching in this tournament, and this now is the time when all this stuff comes up, right? Well he pitched in a tournament in September. The next one’s not until October. How do I keep him fresh for a month? How do I, honestly, I would say keep it, pretend like you’re playing, just throw your–
– [Chris] Simulated games.
– [Paul] Yeah, throw some simulated games. And at least you have the ability to set the pitch count, so at least you know that. And you can set the intervals, and the rest between sets. And you can work on some conditioning, so it’s not all game intensity-type pitches. But that was kinda my advice, right? It used to be real easy. You play a high school team, you play a legion season, and then maybe you play in the fall. And if you played in the fall, it was every weekend, right? So there was some rhythm to it. And how do you keep it on fresh for a month, or three weeks? And remember, it’s, I worry that not only are they not pitching, but they get thrown right into high-pressure situations when they do come back.
– [Chris] Or, you say high-pressure, and because all these tournaments they’re treated like it’s a World Series. We look at these World Series and we see Wade Davis, a closer, going in and throwing 50 something pitches. That’s the World Series. They–
– Right, once a year. Once a year.
– During the season, he would do that, he would never throw more than one inning.
– Right.
– [Chris] That’s just kind how closers are handled these days. But that’s how the Cubs handle it in the World Series. But here in youth baseball, we see every single tournament treated like it’s the World Series. So you see kids being pushed to numbers that they’re not ready for. You see ’em being pushed to throw multiple times what they should never be doing in the first place. And it’s all for one thing. It’s for that glory of, to stand up there at the end.
– [Paul] It’s about the trophy, yeah.
– [Chris] Be able to take a picture with one thing in the air. So, it’s–
– You know, it’s interesting to me, too.
– Tough to watch.
– I’m sorry, go ahead.
– Go ahead.
– [Paul]I’m sorry. When you think about those situations that adults are put in, in a World Series, or something where everything is kind of on the line, the youth plays a lot of baseball. And a pitcher, you’ve watched a lot of baseball. Not playing the field everyday, you’ve had the opportunity to observe a lot of baseball. Probably more than anyone maybe listening to this podcast would have ever played. Most games are kind of won or lost, right? Rule of 54, right? That you’re gonna lose 54, and win 54, there’s not much you can do with those, right? It’s the ones, it’s the 54 in the middle that make the difference. And so, I’ve always felt that the manager, in a long baseball season, even a high school season, 25, 30 games, the manager, or the head coach doesn’t really come into play much in most games. It’s kinda like basketball and football, right? They just, yeah you can make a pitching change, you can steal, hit and run. It doesn’t come down to a lot of, not every game has the pressure-filled situation built into it. And so I feel that when you watch regular season baseball, it just happens, right? In the playoffs, the managers almost become like these characters, right? Where it is about match ups. And you see, Girardi didn’t challenge we’ll say, a pitch, or was it? Whatever it was, right? And he probably would have lost his job if he didn’t win that series. And I almost feel like this tournament baseball creates an environment for these coaches, where they’re almost part, they’re more part of the game than a regular season. Where most games kind of play out. What do you think of that?
– [Chris] Well, watching the playoffs, I love it. It’s the best baseball in the world, it’s the best teams, the best players. You see, these post-game interviews that we’re seeing. The questions the reporters are asking, they pick apart every single decision. Every decision that’s made. And when it comes down to it, and when I was playing, and I would see, hear about managers getting fired, and this and that. The coaches very often, become a scape goat in those situations. The team failed because of the coach’s decisions. Whereas if that, if one or two key players on that team would have produced more frequently, or more consistently, this discussion wouldn’t happening. So you see that in these MLB playoffs. And if the players, if they go out there and they do what they’re capable of, he’s not having to answer those questions. A reviewable call, it is what it is. Let’s talk about scenes in the game. But it’s… As players, you get to that level, it’s, you go out there and do your job. And it seems that more often than not, it’s when they’re failing it’s because of their hitting coach’s lack of approach. Or, because of that approach, or the manager’s choice of putting, not bringing Wade Davis in. Or, bringing him in. I honestly, when I heard what Madden was saying about Wade Davis, because of he didn’t bring him in because he was only available for one inning that day. I’m like, that’s, I’m thinking here we are, at the most important time of the year, and we’re one of the best managers in the world is still conscious of one of his star pitcher’s arm health.
– Yeah.
– In the whole world out there, our youth world, very rarely, and it does happen, but very rarely is that the first thing that’s on a coach’s mind. Is who do I have available today? Who can pitch? Who can’t pitch, right? And if they can pitch, how many can I give ’em, because of what they’ve been throwing? It’s tough. If you were gonna play these games like they’re big league games, and treat them like you would treat big leaguers. You wouldn’t go out and throw these kids the way you’re throwing big leaguers. They’re never gonna be used like that. You will never see a professional arm throw 80 pitches in one day. And then come back the very next day and pitch in two different games. It’s just not gonna happen. But–
– Well, and the other reason too, is ’cause that guy’s agent would be, forget about, yeah, the agent would be blowing up the phone. So, whether they’re protecting him for whatever reason they’re protecting him for, there’s someone there protecting him. Money, or whatever the reason. But there is someone there protecting him.
– [Chris] Yeah. It’s gonna come down to the health of the player. And longevity, and what, where we want this kid to be able to play this game for a long time. This day right now, he’s not gonna remember it. He’s not gonna remember whether this game is won or lost when he’s a higher, in late years of high school. He’s not gonna remember these youth days. He’s not going to.
– [Paul] Well, I wanna direct people to your site, Baseballdudes.com. In a minute I’ll ask you for some final words of wisdom, but check out what Chris does. And here’s a few reasons why. Again, I started as a fan of his. I think we met over just Facebook messaging. This is the first time we’ve talked. But just from what he’s posted is that number one, he’s a family man first. So I respect that. You could just tell by what he posts, and what he does, and where his intentions are. He’s a guy that you wanna follow in that respect, just ’cause I think he’s a great example as a parent. And as a dad, and husband, and leader. So I really respect that. And his views on the game are great. They’re just great. I don’t follow many people. I tend not to be such a social media guy. But he’s one of the guys that I follow. And I really enjoy reading what he puts out. Because I think there’s this theme through it, that he, like I said, he’s a family guy, he cares about other people’s kids, probably the same way he cares about his own kids, I feel. And we need these guys in baseball. We need guys that that do this. Especially guys who’ve had the success that he’s had in his career. So just first, thank you for that. Thank you for being a great leader, and for being a voice in baseball that I think is needed. So, go to Baseballdudes.com, check him out there. There’s links on there. All of the things we talked about. The save the arm, and where you can follow him on social and stuff like that. Chris, what final words of wisdom do you have for those who are listening?
– [Chris] For me, one that you said being a family man, and I have three children myself. And again, working with the families I do. The relationship that we have with our kids is, that’s, as parents, that’s our treasure. When it comes down to it, bottom line, that’s, hopefully for everybody, that’s what matters most. And I urge everybody to make sure that we’re always aware of that, and that our kids are kids. And that our family is our family. And don’t ever let sports and a kid’s performance out there on the field or the court, maybe their work ethic, we’re not really happy with their work ethic, but we gotta understand that our relationship with our kids is what matters most. And don’t ever let sports and a kid’s athletic ability, or their performance get in the way of that. I’ve seen it happen too many times. Which hasn’t been many, but it’s still too many. I’ve seen too many times where a relationship is fractured over sports. And that for me, is one of the toughest things to see. Again, just knowing, I was very fortunate to get to play the game as long as I did. I understand that doesn’t happen for many. But it doesn’t happen for everybody. And we all need to understand that. Whether we’re teaching the game, or we’re watching it. We never forget how hard the game is, and that we’re still people, and that kid is still a person. And when it comes down to it, that win or that loss, it’s not the end. Whether we’re great, or whether we’re not so great. It’s just not the end. It isn’t. So understand those relationships are the most important thing.
– [Paul] Yeah, that message, I can’t say it any better. That’s really why we do that podcast. So, I think that’s a perfect place to put this one on the runway. So guys, check out Baseballdudes.com. Follow Chris on social. I think you’ll really enjoy everything he does. So, Chris, thanks so much for being on today. Appreciate it, man.
– [Chris] Yeah, it’s been my pleasure. I appreciate the opportunity to share.

